高大偉對話萊斯利·馬斯多普：中國十分關注智慧城市的構建
萊斯利，你很了解天津，因為你來過天津很多次了。你也知道對天津來說，世界智慧大會是一個非常重要的時刻。在這個大會上，我們會討論很多關於智慧城市的話題。我想問問你，萊斯利，你怎麼看智慧城市這個概念中的綠色維度？
萊斯利：非常感謝你的邀請，大偉。你知道智慧城市的框架和概念在過去幾年裏不斷演變。在所有大國中，包括中國，政策制定者和企業都十分關注智慧城市的構建。
對於我所任職的金磚國家新開發銀行來說，我們認為智慧城市是可持續發展的城市，更是綠色的城市。從智慧城市的設計特色來看，其本質是提升城市的空氣品質，消除城市中的過度污染。這些污染來源於車輛尾氣、工業排放、離城市近的燃煤發電站。金磚銀行會深度參與其中，幫助中國、巴西、俄羅斯、印度和南非建設智慧、綠色、更宜居的城市。因為歸根結底，智慧城市關乎人們的生活品質，使城市規劃更加以人為本，而不僅僅與技術有關。
通常當人們想到智慧城市時，首先想到的是資訊、通訊、電信基建。對我們來說，智慧城市是以人為本的發展，是打造綠色空間、建設智慧電網。隨著智慧城市理念的不斷發展，最終會在很大程度上依託技術。我們都會擁有個性化的應用軟體，為我們設定每天和每週的碳排放足跡，每個人都能為建設更好更宜居的城市做貢獻。
大偉，我想強調一個事實，世界上污染最嚴重的十個城市中有六個在金磚國家其中大部分在印度。所以我們的機構和中國一樣，都非常關注智慧城市的建設。
我想說的最後一點是，智慧城市的理念若要獲得成功，需要有遠見的政策制定者。在中國，在天津、廈門和我去過的很多其他城市，我都見到過高瞻遠矚的決策者。因為只有靈活變通、不斷適應，才能在新技術出現時，做到逐步推進落實。
因此，長遠的眼光、長期的規劃，對一個高效的智慧城市而言至關重要。我認為這正是天津與眾不同的地方。
萊斯利，非常感謝你告訴我們，當我們思考智慧城市時，當然需要想到科技，但可持續性和治理方式也是我們需要探討的兩個關鍵議題。剛才你也提到，智慧城市必須是宜居城市。所以我想提第二個問題：你認為什麼樣的城市是宜居的？生活在怎樣的城市裏人們會感到幸福？
萊斯利：大偉，你知道城市是全球最大的碳排放源。為了讓世界應對氣候變化，城市處於這個議程的中心。
大家可能知道，在所有國家中，中國做到了（以下這點）。2020年9月，中國國家主席習近平在聯合國大會宣佈將力爭在2060年前實現“碳中和”；在2030年前，也就是在未來9年中，實現“碳達峰”，這意味著自那一時點起 中國的碳排放將只減不增。
回到你的問題上從城市宜居性角度來看，這意味著什麼呢？這意味著城市規劃的全部重心都必須轉移到更好地規劃人們的生活上來，使人們的生活品質得以改善。
宜居城市是綠色的城市。在這樣的城市裏，孩子們上學可以用智慧交通工具，公交車都是電動的。對了，中國擁有世界上90%的電動公交車，所以宜居城市離不開電動車，因為汽車尾氣極大加劇了我們正在經歷的污染。另外，目前全球50%的電動車銷量在中國。所以，建設宜居城市涉及所有這些不同的元素。正如我強調的，最重要的是靈活變通和規劃部署的能力，當新技術出現時，我們就採用和適應。
非常感謝，萊斯利。我們會密切關注天津世界智慧大會的。這是一個非常重要的會議，對天津、對中國、對世界都是如此。因為在智慧城市、認知城市、宜居城市這個領域，我認為世界需要向中國學習。由量向質的轉變在“十四五”規劃中有很詳盡的闡述，這是中國構思設計也必將執行的新發展藍圖。萊斯利，非常感謝你對天津世界智慧大會的豐富貢獻，謝謝。
萊斯利：謝謝。
David: Leslie, you know Tianjin very well, because you have been several times in Tianjin. And you know that, again, this is a very important moment for Tianjin with the World Intelligence Congress, a Congress in which we are going to speak a lot about smart cities. I wanted to ask you, Leslie, how do you see the green dimension in this concept of smart city?
Leslie: Thank you very much for having me, David. As you know, the smart city framework and concept have been evolving over the last number of years. In all of the biggest countries, China included, there's been a significant focus by policy makers, by business, to contribute towards this effort, to create smart cities.
For us, where I sit at the New Development Bank, we look at smart cities as sustainable cities, but a strong green element. If you look at the design features of what is a smart city, ultimately, David, it's about cleaning up the quality of air, it's about ridding the cities of the excessive pollution, which comes from vehicle exhaust, which comes from industrial emissions, which comes from coal-fired power stations, which are near the cities, to be very centrally involved as a bank in helping China and helping Brazil and helping Russia, India, South Africa to not only create smart cities, but green and more livable cities, because, ultimately, David, for us, smart cities is about quality of life and making a city's urban planning more people-centered. It is not about technology.
Often when people think smart cities, the first thing they think about is information, communication, telecoms infrastructure. For us, a smart city is about people-centered development. It's about green spaces. It's about smart grids. Eventually, as the small city concept evolves, David, it will become very much technology-based. We will all have personalized apps that will set out what is our emission footprint per day, per week, so that we can each contribute to a better, more livable city.
David, I should highlight to you that some of the most polluted cities in the world, six of the top ten most polluted cities in the world are in the BRICS countries. Most of them are in India. So, there's a significant focus by our institution, and also here in China, as you know, on creating smart cities.
Maybe the last point I'd like to make is that it is very important for a smart city concept to be successful, to have far-sighted policy makers. What we have in China, Tianjin, Xiamen, and many other cities that I have visited, I have seen policy makers focused on the long term, because it's only the agility, the ability to adapt as new technologies coming, you implement in an incremental manner.
So, long-term horizons, long-term planning is central to an effective, smart city. I think this is where Tianjin will differentiate itself.
David: Thank you very much, Leslie, for telling us that when we think about a smart city, of course, we need to think about technology, but sustainability and governance are also two key themes that one needs to discuss. But you said also in your presentation that a smart city has to be a livable city. I wanted to ask you a second question, what in your opinion makes a city livable, a city in which we feel happy to live in?
Leslie: Cities, David, as you know, are the single largest contributors to emissions globally. In order for the world to deal with climate change, cities are right at the center of that agenda.
As you know, just as a backdrop, in all of our countries, China has, in September 2020, President Xi Jinping at the United Nations General Assembly announced 2060 as the date when China wants to achieve carbon net zero. And by 2030, which by the way is 9 years from now, China wishes to have peak emissions, which means that from that point onwards, China will only remove more emissions from the atmosphere.
Come to your question, what does that actually mean in terms of the livability of cities? It means that the entire focus of planning has to shift towards organizing people's livelihood in such a manner that they can improve their quality of life.
A livable city is about green spaces. It's about a city where children can go to school with smart mobility where buses are electrified. China, by the way, has 90% of the electric bus fleet in the world. So, livable cities is about electric vehicles because emissions from cars contribute greatly to the pollution that we are experiencing. Again, 50 % of all electric vehicle sales in the world today are in China. So, making a city livable is about all of these different elements. And what’s important, as I highlighted, is that agility, the ability to plan, move forward, when new technology comes, you adopt and you adapt.
David: Thank you very much, Leslie. So, we will pay attention to the World Intelligence Congress. This is a very important event for Tianjin, for China, but I think also for the world. Because in terms of smart cities, cognitive cities, or livable cities, it seems to me that the world also has to learn from what China is doing and the shift from quantity to quality is very well illustrated in the 14th Five-Year Plan that China has just conceived, designed, and that China will implement. Thank you very much, Leslie, for your very rich contribution to the World Intelligence Congress. Thank you.
Leslie: Thank you.
